Cut not healing

by River Fri 26 Jan 2018, 10:15 pm

Graham got her cut on January 11th and it seemed fine for a while, but it still isn't healed, and it isn't scabbed over anymore either. I think she's been scratching it. I put the antibacterial cream on again for the second time since she got it, and I added a new hanging toy to help distract her. I also put some stones back underneath the water bottle to file down her nails.

I just feel like it should be healed by now. She's still going through the mites treatment (second dose was this week) but I'm worried. Shouldn't she be leaving it alone by now? What can I do to help it heal?

by River Fri 26 Jan 2018, 10:41 pm

Here are some pictures. It had scabbed over and a week or less ago, it seemed to sort of 'peel off' and she started scratching. Now it looks like this, after the cream was applied.

[the squint in the 'eating' pictures is because she was irritated with me being so close -- it isn't usually present, so it I don't think she's in pain.]

by Peachy Fri 26 Jan 2018, 11:44 pm

Vets can be a godsend if you have a savvy one. My first itchy mouse was prescribed some eye ointment and her itchy ear cleared up in no time. It didn't work with the next mice, but they may have been too far for it to nip it.

That's a common spot for chronic scratching, but it doesn't look too bad yet. Is it parasites that you believe are triggering the scratching? You should see improvement quickly if mites are making her itchy, but it's not unusual to keep messing with it because it feels irritated and yucky. Cool washcloths or a frozen tile/mug might help with the itch. Cortaid is ok to use, too, I believe. I remember shopping for it one night several years ago for my Sulley. I didn't buy it so I don't know how well it works for itchy mice, though.

by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Sat 27 Jan 2018, 1:12 pm

Some input from the "passionista" of skin physiology and wound healing ...

Most people are quite surprised when I tell them that wounds heal better if they are kept moist. A scab is actually like Nature's duct tape -- when there isn't time or resources to do a better job of closing up a breach in the defenses, Nature will slap a scab on it. But the scab actually interferes with "proper" healing, because it interferes with the migration of new skin cells across the surface of the damaged area and the filling in of the gap.

I believe that the urge our little animal friends have to lick wounds and chew off scabs comes directly from Nature's imperative to keep wounds moist for better healing. If we "peoples" were not so conditioned against doing it ourselves, and if we hadn't learned so much about the dangers of bacteria and other contaminants, then when we took a first aid class that might be exactly what the instructor told us to do in case of an open wound: lick it clean and keep on licking!

So, anyway, Graham's owie spot looks like it should be able to heal on its own. You can help it along by doing some of the anti-bacterial work for her (rinse it - don't scrub it - with clean water or saline solution, at somewhere between room temperature and body temperature; look for swelling or redness in the surrounding skin, feel for increased temperature, sniff for infectiony smell), and keeping the open area from drying out (this is where ointments or creams do their work).

It is inevitable that she will groom the injured area, so make sure the cream or ointment is mouse-safe. If you do not have something mouse-safe, you can do some online research into sugar or honey wound dressings that you can make up on your own. There will have to be a little play-and-distraction time spent after each application, to allow the treatment to sort of melt across or soak into the wound surface before the patient might run it through the bedding to see how much will stick to it, or decide she needs to give herself another bath and just smear it around and eat it off her hands.

The rinse-and-dress routine has to be repeated at least a few times per day, and you can monitor the size of the opening from one time to the next, to watch for indications that the wound is closing.

As for keeping the nails buffed, when I first had April I used to take her outside some evenings, after sunset (she was PEW), and let her walk about on the concrete sidewalk. She was not a flight risk -- she only wanted to stay by me -- and that seemed to do an excellent job on those little claws. Then winter came ...

by Peachy Sat 27 Jan 2018, 7:22 pm

Glad for the input, Merci!!! I was going to suggest trying to keep it moist but was unsure of that advice. It was a couple years ago that I read that wounds heal better and are less likely to scar badly if you don't let them dry out... So that's something I tend to do for myself, but my doctor (and everyone else I know) has suggested the opposite. I guess I'm a bad patient sometimes. Laughing

Interesting about the dressings, too.

Hope Graham heals up quickly, River! Good vibes

by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:36 am

You are very welcome, Peachy.

Dr. George D. Winter of the University Of London published the results of his breakthrough study on rates of open versus covered wound healing in pigs in the journal NATURE in 1962. It was just a short article, but it revolutionized the art of wound care. Confirmation by other researchers followed, and today the research continues into developing better and more practical dressings and therapies to help wounds to heal in their optimum environment, even when the surrounding tissues are so damaged that they can't provide that environment on their own.

Your doctor probably (I hope) has a good reason for telling you to keep a wound dry, such as if you have an incision that has been stitched or that you have suture-taped -- then you might want that seam where the two sides are brought back together at depth to work on reconnecting, rather than getting all mushy and slidy as water keeps percolating into the fault line. In this case, the wound IS actually being kept moist for healing under the surface closure.

I guess the thing to do would be to ask the doctor why you have to do something, whether it concurs with your intuition or runs counter to it. Just tell the doctor that it will help you to follow correct home care protocol if you understand how it works.

And, yes, I hope Graham is getting better. Quickly.

by River Sun 28 Jan 2018, 6:38 pm

Thanks!! It isn't any worse today, at least. I'll use some filtered water + the "neosporin" (offbrand) twice a day and see how it helps.

I fear her scratching is addicting, though. The fur on her back is kinda patchy. The spot right between the shoulders is longer than anywhere else, but a check beneath it says the skin is perfectly fine!! No weird smells or temperature changes so I hope she will be fine.

Garcia's eyes improved amazingly though, so at least that's not two problems to worry about on my hands.

by River Sun 28 Jan 2018, 9:29 pm

It seemed to be bleeding earlier tonight. The fur around it was pink and it looks even a bit longer.

I barely managed to get a few drops of water on it. She hated it and it took at least ten minutes to get her to stay a little still, so I didn't even bother with the cream. Will getting actual neosporin help or will it just make her scratch even more? It seems to me like putting stuff on it will just make her want to "clean" it more and induce more scratching. The off brand sure didnt do anything.

by Peachy Sun 28 Jan 2018, 9:56 pm

The brand shouldn't matter, but they might be less likely to mess with it if use the smallest amount you can. Don't smother it, just a light coating. Many of us have found that mice bug their wounds more when you use ointment on them, though. I usually skip it when it's something self inflicted like scratching, just go straight to distractions.

Try a cool washcloth. They don't like it at first, but most of mine have come around to tolerating it at least. Yoshi used to lean into it. It gets it cleaned up and can be soothing if you use a cooler temp... Think of a cold compress on bug bites or allergies.

by River Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:22 pm

Thanks! I'll try the washcloth. Distraction isn't really an affective option in her case, though.

Now I've had help and gotten ideas from all over the internet and within my family but boxes, tubes, hammocks and cup holders can only go so far. Her variety is more limited than it used to be. When you use the same materials every week (or even more often), it loses the distracting luxury it used to have, even if they look a bit different this time.

I've gotten the 'get creative with it' response too many times to count but trust I've used everything I can think of and everything other people share with me. It's still not gonna be easy to distract her enough to keep her from doing this to herself. I've been changing cage lay out and switching out toys in between cage cleans since she got the scratch. There's only so many configurations tubes can go into before they all start to blend together, you know?

I'm not saying I won't try the distraction thing, just that it's a method I think I've already exhausted.

by Peachy Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:09 pm

If her scratching is a habit, the only way you're going to get it to stop is to break the habit by finding a less destructive habit. In any case, wood allergies or not, the only thing you can really do is keep trying. I get how crazy exhausting and frustrating it is to watch them keep at it, though.

Do you have coffee cans, plastic tubs, or the like? I once made a neato MES thing out of a coffee can. If you can find egg cartons in bulk you could probably make some amazing things, too. Someone shared a super cool egg carton creation before, wonder if I can find the link. Google

Edit - https://youtu.be/-Lbw6oIPM84 I made a larger one for my 29 gallon once and it was too much fun!

by River Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:38 pm

Yep. Tried those, and she has huts similar to them anyhow. She's not very destructive as far as mice go, so you can imagine how difficult distracting her really is.

I'd have to use the smallest version to fit it in the cage, and I'm not sure how different it is from toys she already has but like you said...nothing else I can do. I'm fairly certain its habit, nothing else it could be at this point. All allergies are out of the way, mites have been treated for, the cut is in the same place as Maier's was, etc.

I'm just worried I guess. Distracting is something I'll keep at anyways, but it hasn't worked so far. Being in such a helpless situation is never easy.

by River Tue 30 Jan 2018, 8:02 pm

She now has a wound between her shoulders. With no allergies on site, and the possibility of any ear infections or specific ear mites ruled out...I'm almost certain its OCD. I've heard fungus is possible though. Any way to tell?

I'm keeping both the wounds clean. Luckily she seems to like chewing on egg carton material, which is fantastic , since she's not destructive to most cardboard. Hopefully it'll help out.

EDIT: We did change the food on December 31st but Maier had a cut before then too. Could this have caused it? I didn't think of it till recently. There is more wheat in the new mix but there was still wheat in the other one...that's the only allergen I can think of, though.

by Peachy Tue 30 Jan 2018, 11:22 pm

What's the crude protein?

by River Wed 31 Jan 2018, 12:44 am

13%, her last mix was 12%. Then if that caused it I can't think of what would have caused Maier's cut, but I suppose its still possible. The difference seems small, though. We went from Vitasmart to Sunseed Vita Prima.

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