Remove or Not Remove?

by CinnamonPearl Sat 28 May 2016, 12:57 pm

Alright. So the vet finally called me back with the results from Little Cow's test on her lump. And the results? Completely and utterly unhelpful. The vet has determined that the lump is either cancerous or it's not. Wow. You're a real champ, vet. That was definitely worth the $120 I paid to find out information I already knew.

Well ANYWAY, I'm gonna call her later today to find out what else we can do and discuss a plan, but before then, I need you guys's opinion. If this thing is cancerous, then so be it. But if it's benign- would it be worth it to risk anesthesia to take this thing off her? What are the pros and cons of letting a benign tumor be? Would it eventually have the same effect as a cancerous tumor? Because if so, then maybe it'd be worth it to risk the surgery? Since benign tumors don't grow back, it would ensure her another year or two. So what should I do?

EDIT: Just got the call, and yeah, it's either cancerous or it's not. It's either a blood-filled bruise that will go down on it's own, a benign tumor, or a malignant tumor. The vet suggested we try some herbs for now, so I'll do that for now, but I will push to find out what this is. If it is benign, remove it or no?

by MouseLover Sat 28 May 2016, 1:57 pm

Does it appear to be getting smaller, or staying the same size? Or is it growing? How fast is it growing?

Most tumours in mice are benign. The word "benign" almost implies "harmless", but benign tumours in mice can be nasty nasty things, which as far as I'm aware can grow back after being removed. The trouble with benign tumours is that they can grow to be so big. The size of the tumour then causes complications - trouble moving around, exhaustion, weight loss. The tumour can become too big for it's blood supply, which can cause it to ulcerate. They can rupture and cause internal or external bleeding. I have lost many mice to these types of tumours.

As for whether or not to operate, there is no right or wrong answer. If you want to try and have it removed then go for it. But know that the risk of anesthesia is high and your mouse could die on the operating table. The recovery process can be difficult and painful. The tumour could then grow back a month or two later. For this reason I have never had a mouse's tumour removed, and I just try and make them comfortable and happy for as long as possible, until it is time to say goodbye. If the tumour grows slowly, this could be quite some time away. How old is Little Cow?

by CinnamonPearl Sat 28 May 2016, 8:12 pm

Well, the tumor is growing pretty fast. If a benign tumor can grow back, then there's no point. I'll just have to keep her comfortable until I can't anymore. For now I'll try those herbs, though I doubt they'll have much effect. But no, I'm not going to risk surgery just to have it come back. I thought benign tumors didn't grow back, but I guess I was wrong.

She's about eighteen months.

by scaredymouse Sat 28 May 2016, 10:08 pm

So here what I know. Benign tumors tend to grow pretty slowly. And despite the fact that they don't usually come back, due to the risks involved in surgery, it's often best to just leave them alone if they aren't causing any problems.

When Lucy had her tumor, the vet aspirated a sample and it was just blood and cancer cells. it was too complicated to operate on because it had wrapped itself up in some blood vessels.

So, I guess to answer your question, I think it's a high risk surgery that can't promise a good outcome. If she seems happy and it doesn't bother her too much... you might want to consider letting it be.

by DVirginiana Sun 29 May 2016, 12:23 am

Wow, I never would have guessed that the tumor was either cancerous or not cancerous. Rolling Eyes

If it is likely benign and she's already 18 months, I probably wouldn't operate. At that age odds are she might die of something else before the tumor reaches the point where you have to euthanize. Also, even without factoring in the extra risk of surgery at an older age, she could spend a lot of her remaining time in recovery.
It's ultimately your decision, but even though there's no likable option, neither option is a 'bad' one. By that I mean there are potential positives to both routes and there is no one 'right' way to go.

Best of luck to you and her Neutral

by CinnamonPearl Sun 29 May 2016, 11:35 am

You guys are right. I only asked the question because I thought benign tumors don't grow back, and so it might be worth the risk to remove it, but if they grow back, then removing it is as useless as removing a malignant tumor. I'm going to leave it. I'll try the herbs the vet recommended, but honestly if a bunch of herbs were capable of breaking down blood tumors, cancer would be a nonissue at this point.

Well anyway, thanks everyone. I know what to do now. Hopefully Little Cow will be fine for another few months, but with the rate this thing is growing, I'm just not certain. I'm praying that it is a bruise and it'll go away on its own, but it's the most unlikely option.

by MouseLover Sun 29 May 2016, 6:09 pm

Fingers crossed it's not a tumour, but if it is, I hope it grows as slowly as possible for her. Good luck Cinnamon and Little Cow Smile

by CinnamonPearl Mon 20 Jun 2016, 10:08 pm

It's getting worse. Worry

by scaredymouse Mon 20 Jun 2016, 11:37 pm

oh, little cow :girl_sad: I'm sorry Cinna...

by MouseLover Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:27 am

How is she doing otherwise? Is she still active?

by CinnamonPearl Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:36 am

She's okay. She's trying her best to keep her chin up, still running on the wheel and such, but I can tell it's starting to get to her. She's struggling to scratch her left ear, and she's less spunky than she once was. Her future is starting to become a reality to me. My mice were stressing me out so much yesterday that I had to cover up their tank with a towel. Sad

I was missing Lilith a lot yesterday, and with Mabel and Cow, I just needed a break, even if it was just ten minutes.

by peas Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:39 pm

What i would do is,

Feed her lots of tasty treats while she'll still enjoy them. Now is not the time to worry about what is healthy or not for her, worry about what she likes and can't get enough of. Mice love food. Give her some good food so the last couple weeks or months of her life are some of the best ones.

She's going to die so it's upto you to decide whether you want to try and strectch things out as long as possible or try and make quality of life as high as it can be.

There's no right or wrong answer, but the choice is yours. Whether you do all the right things, or all the wrong things, the result will be the same. She's had a good long life. Be happy with that. It sounds like you've done everything you can, all that is left to do is enjoy and help her enjoy whatever time is left.

by CinnamonPearl Tue 21 Jun 2016, 9:47 pm

I know, Peas. Thank you. At this point, pretending that she might make it out of this would only make things worse for both me and her. She's still happy and pain-free, and it's all I could ask for. I'm so grateful that my little baby cow is keeping her chin up. She'll be getting lots of treats. I'm usually not great with treats, but I'll get some things for her to try. When it's time, I'll let her go, there's not much more to do.

But..... god I'm going to miss her so much.

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