Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
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Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by River Tue 28 Nov 2017, 5:07 pm
Maier is one year and almost 8 months now. She's old, and it only recently started showing.
She's always been a pretty vocal mouse, which we confirmed wasn't a URI -- she was just one of those rarely talkative mice. It got louder, and then a few days before we planned to make an appointment, stopped. She's been quieter than ever, and her breath is quiet. No lung problems at all.
She started sleeping in weird spots -- she'd just climb from her nest during the day and take a nap outside. It's happened before, so I didn't think much of it.
She dramatically lost weight, going from a chubby little mouse to a thin one in a few days. It seemed to quick and maybe even too much to be normal. She doesn't eat as much seed, but she eats treats and vegetables. When she eats hard foods, like her favorite cereal, it seems almost like eating it..hurts. She'll stay there, holding her treat, and breathing heavily for a few seconds and then she'll chomp down again.
She also stands in one place looking lost, like she doesn't know what to do with herself. Her postures gotten pretty hunched too, and she holds her hind legs oddly. She looks pained.
Problem is we have no idea what's wrong with her. A normal check-up doesn't reveal anything sickly. Her breaths fine. No visible tumors, but it could be internal, etc. We'd need more tests done to reveal what's wrong but her health is deteriorating pretty quickly.
We haven't gotten anything done with her feces yet, but before we do I need to ask if this just what it's like when mice are elderly. Is this what it's like before the end comes? She used to be the most energetic little thing, and while she still isn't sitting still when I hold her, she's changed a lot.
Another thing -- before we do more tests, how do I make her more comfortable? What are foods aside from seeds that will bump her weight up and help her stay comfortable? Will a lot of vegetables keep her going longer? Should we have her euthanized if it's hurting her too much?
Graham's doing fine. Nothing contagious.
Thanks for reading. Sorry this got so long. I'm not entirely ready for this phase of life.
comparision photos of before and now;
She's always been a pretty vocal mouse, which we confirmed wasn't a URI -- she was just one of those rarely talkative mice. It got louder, and then a few days before we planned to make an appointment, stopped. She's been quieter than ever, and her breath is quiet. No lung problems at all.
She started sleeping in weird spots -- she'd just climb from her nest during the day and take a nap outside. It's happened before, so I didn't think much of it.
She dramatically lost weight, going from a chubby little mouse to a thin one in a few days. It seemed to quick and maybe even too much to be normal. She doesn't eat as much seed, but she eats treats and vegetables. When she eats hard foods, like her favorite cereal, it seems almost like eating it..hurts. She'll stay there, holding her treat, and breathing heavily for a few seconds and then she'll chomp down again.
She also stands in one place looking lost, like she doesn't know what to do with herself. Her postures gotten pretty hunched too, and she holds her hind legs oddly. She looks pained.
Problem is we have no idea what's wrong with her. A normal check-up doesn't reveal anything sickly. Her breaths fine. No visible tumors, but it could be internal, etc. We'd need more tests done to reveal what's wrong but her health is deteriorating pretty quickly.
We haven't gotten anything done with her feces yet, but before we do I need to ask if this just what it's like when mice are elderly. Is this what it's like before the end comes? She used to be the most energetic little thing, and while she still isn't sitting still when I hold her, she's changed a lot.
Another thing -- before we do more tests, how do I make her more comfortable? What are foods aside from seeds that will bump her weight up and help her stay comfortable? Will a lot of vegetables keep her going longer? Should we have her euthanized if it's hurting her too much?
Graham's doing fine. Nothing contagious.
Thanks for reading. Sorry this got so long. I'm not entirely ready for this phase of life.
comparision photos of before and now;
Last edited by River on Tue 28 Nov 2017, 7:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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*Neutered male group. Do not house intact males together.*
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*Neutered male group. Do not house intact males together.*
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by River Tue 28 Nov 2017, 5:14 pm
(To add;I don't think she seems lethargic, since she still is active, climbing and running on her wheel when she wants, but she just seems like somethings hurting.)
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by CallaLily Wed 29 Nov 2017, 8:40 am
I'm so sorry to hear Maier isn't feeling well. If your vet can't find anything wrong, it may just be old age. For the average pet shop mouse, 20 months is really good. She still may hang in there a while yet, but I do want to give you a heads up that sudden weight loss like that isn't a good sign. I'm so sorry. hugs
If you think she's in any pain, you could ask your vet to prescribe something. Otherwise, spoil her. Give her all her favorite treats. Cooked grains may be enjoyable for her (oats, rice, etc), scrambled egg, pureed fruits/veggies. Make sure food and water are easy to access. Make sure the temperature in the room is at a comfortable level (70s F). If she seems like she's not enjoying life anymore, breathing is a huge struggle, she's refusing food and treats, and/or seems to be in a lot of pain; you may want to considered talking to your vet about easing her passing.
If you think she's in any pain, you could ask your vet to prescribe something. Otherwise, spoil her. Give her all her favorite treats. Cooked grains may be enjoyable for her (oats, rice, etc), scrambled egg, pureed fruits/veggies. Make sure food and water are easy to access. Make sure the temperature in the room is at a comfortable level (70s F). If she seems like she's not enjoying life anymore, breathing is a huge struggle, she's refusing food and treats, and/or seems to be in a lot of pain; you may want to considered talking to your vet about easing her passing.
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by Peachy Wed 29 Nov 2017, 9:54 am
The way you described her eating a Cheerio and looking lost reminds me of my old man Yoshi. I had never seen that with other mice, he was almost three. He still got little spurts of energy, but in the last few days he had troubles with his back legs and started pulling himself around.
Anyway, my guess would be age, and I second everything CallaLily said.
Scrambled eggs cooked with a little bit of oil are my go-to for older mice, the oil is yummy and seems to be appetizing to all.
Take good care of her, my best to you both.
Anyway, my guess would be age, and I second everything CallaLily said.
Scrambled eggs cooked with a little bit of oil are my go-to for older mice, the oil is yummy and seems to be appetizing to all.Take good care of her, my best to you both.
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Wed 29 Nov 2017, 12:20 pm
Another thing to watch for is if she has trouble washing herself. You might have to pitch in and help her out so she doesn't feel all grungy. You know how they love to be all clean and fluffy! A gentle bath of the dirty parts, and a cuddly drying (and bonding) session, may be a comfort to her that she would not get by spending that time in the mousehouse.
When my little boopster was winding down last summer, at first either she would just run out of oomph before she finished, or else she was having difficulty reaching everything, but her top rear fur got to looking greasy and unkempt. So I gave her a little cleanup help.
Then when she had only a few days left, bathing her became my duty, if she was to be clean and fluffy at all. I'd keep apologizing, telling her I knew I couldn't do as good a job as she could, because I was just big and clumsy, but the bath would be done and she would be clean. Not done right, but done.
Like going to the salon where they never do your hair right, but they get it done.
When my little boopster was winding down last summer, at first either she would just run out of oomph before she finished, or else she was having difficulty reaching everything, but her top rear fur got to looking greasy and unkempt. So I gave her a little cleanup help.
Then when she had only a few days left, bathing her became my duty, if she was to be clean and fluffy at all. I'd keep apologizing, telling her I knew I couldn't do as good a job as she could, because I was just big and clumsy, but the bath would be done and she would be clean. Not done right, but done.
Like going to the salon where they never do your hair right, but they get it done.
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by Mice Are Cute Wed 29 Nov 2017, 3:27 pm
Same thing is happening with my mouse Grayson. He has almost all the same symptoms as your mouse. I try to keep him comfortable, clean, and I help him when I think he needs help. If you are ever concerned by something else, a quick trip to the vet would be ideal
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by River Wed 29 Nov 2017, 6:47 pm
Thanks for the support guys. Today she seems more active but something totally different happened.
She has a cut from her ear, down the side of her face, no idea what from. Wasn't there yesterday and she doesn't seem to be scratching it, unless her sister had done it. I cleaned it with some water, and got her out and put back on ivermectin just in case.
No idea what could have caused it besides overgrooming which I'm positive I would have noticed before it got bloody. I'm checking through the cage for anything but I'm coming up empty...must have happened overnight, but I was out all day.
I'm thinking maybe the girls got in a fight, but I'm not sure. Should I let Graham groom Maier still? What are your thoughts?
Here's a picture of the cut.
We don't have neosporin right now. I would use antibacterial soap but I don't think she'd let me rinse it out of her fur. Will these off-brand neosporins work for the time being?
She has a cut from her ear, down the side of her face, no idea what from. Wasn't there yesterday and she doesn't seem to be scratching it, unless her sister had done it. I cleaned it with some water, and got her out and put back on ivermectin just in case.
No idea what could have caused it besides overgrooming which I'm positive I would have noticed before it got bloody. I'm checking through the cage for anything but I'm coming up empty...must have happened overnight, but I was out all day.
I'm thinking maybe the girls got in a fight, but I'm not sure. Should I let Graham groom Maier still? What are your thoughts?
Here's a picture of the cut.
We don't have neosporin right now. I would use antibacterial soap but I don't think she'd let me rinse it out of her fur. Will these off-brand neosporins work for the time being?
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*Neutered male group. Do not house intact males together.*
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by Rodents rock! Wed 29 Nov 2017, 9:39 pm
Hi River, sorry to hear Maier isn't doing well. Overall it does sound like the effects of old age to me. (((Hugs)))
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by Peachy Wed 29 Nov 2017, 9:47 pm
That would be a very odd spot for one mouse to injure another. Any tight squeezes? You can let them keep on with their mousey things, maybe just a wait a few minutes before putting her home after applying any ointment.
The triple antibiotic has the same ingredients as Neosporin, so that's ok. I'm not sure about the A&D ointment, though.
The triple antibiotic has the same ingredients as Neosporin, so that's ok. I'm not sure about the A&D ointment, though.
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by River Fri 01 Dec 2017, 5:27 pm
She isn't feeling quite like one of the golden girls, but she's been a little more active with the assistance of favorite toys and treats.
She's scratching at that cut when it tries to heal, though. It started scabbing over yesterday and she scratched it off by the time I got up in the morning. I guess scabbing is as itchy for them as it is for us.
The medicine is pretty hard to put on when she's running about but I do my best. I rinsed it this morning, put some on, and then a little more this evening. It looks painful but there's no signs of infection.
I wonder if they make mice cones. I hope this heals up soon. Vet visits are so stressful for her.
She's scratching at that cut when it tries to heal, though. It started scabbing over yesterday and she scratched it off by the time I got up in the morning. I guess scabbing is as itchy for them as it is for us.
The medicine is pretty hard to put on when she's running about but I do my best. I rinsed it this morning, put some on, and then a little more this evening. It looks painful but there's no signs of infection.
I wonder if they make mice cones. I hope this heals up soon. Vet visits are so stressful for her.
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*Neutered male group. Do not house intact males together.*
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*Neutered male group. Do not house intact males together.*
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by chiroptera Fri 01 Dec 2017, 5:31 pm
I have a feeling that it wouldn't even be possible to keep a cone on a mouse, they're so small and wriggly... Maybe some other way of stopping her from scratching? Not sure how, though.
Good to hear that she's at least doing a little bit better, though!
Good to hear that she's at least doing a little bit better, though!
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Fri 01 Dec 2017, 5:56 pm
A while back there was a study on ulcerative dermatitis in lab mice. Evidently, the best treatment for when they just won't stop scratching, even though they're turning themselves into little raw meatballs, is A PEDICURE. I checked to make sure a report summary is still available online, and it is. The title is "Toenail trim saves lab mice from common, life-threatening skin condition".
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by Rodents rock! Fri 01 Dec 2017, 6:54 pm
MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop wrote:A while back there was a study on ulcerative dermatitis in lab mice. Evidently, the best treatment for when they just won't stop scratching, even though they're turning themselves into little raw meatballs, is A PEDICURE. I checked to make sure a report summary is still available online, and it is. The title is "Toenail trim saves lab mice from common, life-threatening skin condition".
Wow, thank you for sharing that information. I just read the article, amazing what just trimming the nails accomplished !
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by River Fri 01 Dec 2017, 10:51 pm
Trimming her nails will be a difficult task. Those are some tiny nails. I reckon her vet could do it but with her state I don't want to stress her out by taking her in again.
I have some sterilized rocks from the store, I wonder if putting those in her cage would help wear them down? They're pretty smooth, though.
I have some sterilized rocks from the store, I wonder if putting those in her cage would help wear them down? They're pretty smooth, though.
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Goose & Otter* ♂
Remembering Mr. Bald ♂, Tipsy, Topsy, Maier, Graham & Garcia ♀
*Neutered male group. Do not house intact males together.*
Remembering Mr. Bald ♂, Tipsy, Topsy, Maier, Graham & Garcia ♀
*Neutered male group. Do not house intact males together.*
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Re: Old Age Vs. Poor Health -- + more
by Rodents rock! Sat 02 Dec 2017, 12:32 am
River wrote:Trimming her nails will be a difficult task. Those are some tiny nails. I reckon her vet could do it but with her state I don't want to stress her out by taking her in again.
I have some sterilized rocks from the store, I wonder if putting those in her cage would help wear them down? They're pretty smooth, though.
It's a great idea, but I agree, it would be very difficult to trim a mouse's nails.
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