Orphan wild deer mouse

by NewMouseMom Mon 14 May 2018, 12:27 pm

Ok so this is day nine since his mom was killed. There were 4. 3 escaped after I'd held them snug in my hand for 8 hours, they got away durring feeding attempt. They were definitely nursing when mom was killed, tried to nurse after she was dead. The whole thing was awful. I caught one mouse and returned him to the 10 gal. Fish tank. Tango, the one that was there, killed him. They'd been apart for 12 hours and I didn't know better. One of them is running around my kitchen. I see him now and then, he looks ok! So, Tango was doing great, his eyes were wide open, he was running on a solid plastic spinner, eating Carnival Pet Mouse and Rodent feed which is too rich I think but he was fine! Very active, popcorn phase I think. I've been researching frantically to learn all I can fast! My husband, surprised me by bringing a store-bought mouse home. He nor I new at that point that male mice live alone. There was aggression but no fight, I'd grabbed Topo out before he could really do harm. And then I found this sight. So. My wild orphan deer mouse stopped eating and is barely drinking since the day before yesterday...5/14/18. He runs on his spinner but seems to lack his former coordination. He comes out of his nest once or twice in daytime to run around and check his 'stuff', that's what it looks like anyway. But since the 12th, instead of coming out by 5pm and racing on his spinner, sitting in his food bowl eating, sitting on his water drinking (he laps it up, hasnt figured out the water bottle), climbing his rope, running upside down on the tank lid, jumping like, well...like popcorn. Instead, he's coming out of his nest very late, 10:30 pm last night. His coordination on the spinner isn't nearly what it was and he gets spun into the center and stays there, sort of huddled up. He just isn't as active as he was and he isn't eating. I've tried everything I had to hand. My husband is out buying more things to try but I'm terrified I'm loosing him. The pet mouse is smelly, the orphan isnt. I've seen him pee and poop and picked up the poo but I don't think he's peeing as much or marking as heavily as the pet mouse and they're in the same room. I can't change that. Any advice would be very very much appreciated. I'll try to post pics later, I'm on my tablet and all the pics are on my phone.

by NewMouseMom Mon 14 May 2018, 1:10 pm

Oh my God! I promise to proof read before posting again. Apparantly there's no way to get pictures from gallery on phone to this site, so I'll take pictures later with the camera icon here.

by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Tue 15 May 2018, 7:08 am

Do you have the "kitten milk replacement" for feeding baby mice? Your little friend may be weakening because he lacks essential nutrition baby mice need that usually only comes from their mumma. Even at three, four, and five weeks, the correct milk is important for them.

* * * * * If you have not done so already, make sure to read through the information page on this site titled "Wild Mouse / Mice care and information", which is a sticky at the top of the subforum "Wild Mouse Care" in the forum "Emergency Care" under the topic "HEALTH AND WELLNESS". * * * * *

As for your little mousie visitor coming out later at night, it may just be adjusting to the situation it finds itself in. Try to keep the lighting gentle in the area where you are keeping the mousehouse, and mind the noise level - including electronic equipment that may be putting off sounds that are out of human hearing range but could be very loud and annoying (or disturbing) to mice.

by NewMouseMom Tue 15 May 2018, 9:16 am

Ok, I'll do more reading but I can't catch him, let alone nurse him! I'll try putting the KMR kitten formula in a bowl for him. He laps water with no trouble! I'm hoping that will work. Thank you for your reply.

by NewMouseMom Tue 15 May 2018, 10:14 am

I read the material...great info! I thing he's (he's definitely a boy) frantic to get out. If I put his nest, and bird seed (I was feeding him a mice/rat formula of seeds and treats..Carnival Tropical. My domestic mouse loves it but I fear is too fattening. Food and treats in one doesn't sound good to me! My husband bought it, it was all the store had. ) anyway, if I put his nest and bird seed under my porch, with say, some pvc pipes with multiple 'doors' do you think that would be ok? My gut is telling me that he's dying because he's in captivity. He WAS eating and drinking the seed mix and water, now. ..he seems depressed...I know that sounds weird, but this isn't my first rodeo with orphaned wild creatures. It IS my first mouse though and, well, I think keeping him is going to kill him. I can buy the KMR and try putting it in his tank next to his water but catching him to feed him is impossible. He JUMPS like a, I don't even know what, he jumps vertically straight up (and out! ) of the 10 gal. Tank if it's open when he's awake). He also seems panicked and totally stressed if I open the mesh tank top to do anything. I have to do what's needed when he's sleeping or he gets so stressed out. So, should I take the spinner out of his tank? Until I release him, should I just take out that spinner/saucer and just try and feed him up? I'm in such a quandry! I'm sure he's a deer mouse and I know I need to release him before he gets accustomed to easy living lol! But as I said, my gut is telling me he's pining to be free. There's a bird house in my front yard, right in front of the porch. I have 10 acres of land but I want him to have protection for his first weeks outside. What do you think? I can make sure there's water (or he can get it off the grass 15 feet from the spot under the porch. I have dogs and they'll hunt him if they can find him so I'm trying to think of how to protect him from them AND place him where I'm sure he'll have access to food...seeds..jeeze this is hard! Ive ordered 2 of a bunch of things for mice from amazon but I think I need to cancel the extra stuff. For my domestic mouse. ..what brand of food can I feed him? Absolutely everything I've found has corn in it! My fancy mouse Topo loves it but it has lots of things that I now understand are treats, so can you recommend a mouse food that's fits the requirements? Thank you so much for your help!

by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Wed 16 May 2018, 9:13 am

Just remember, for your little Wild Thing, that you're only filling in for his lost mumma. Once the little one is grown up and as healthy as you can keep him, then he is free to go. It just doesn't sound to me from your descriptions that he has reached adulthood quite yet.

Kitten formula in a dish works fine. You don't want to train a wild mouse to look for a bottle to find something to drink, after all. You just have to keep watch on an open milk dish so bedding doesn't get dragged into it and soak the milk all up, so the milk doesn't get spilled into the bedding (in which case you should clean up the mess and replace the formula), and so you don't leave it out too long (replace it frequently with a fresh batch so it doesn't spoil or grow bacteria/fungus).

As for what to feed your little Topo, I am sure the Tropical Carnival has its good points and its bad points, its promoters and its detractors. You can surely find something that nutritionists would prefer. My personal experience was that little April enjoyed the Carnival for the most part -- and especially those little colored flower shapes (we called them "mouse cookies"). I would just pull the corns out of the mix and set them out for the chipmunks and squirrels.

I think April had a fairly good supplement to her mouse chow with her vegetables (fresh or cooked), bananas, baby porridge or buckwheat groats, freeze-dried mini shrimps and salmon cubes, Cheerios and GrapeNuts, and little nibbles off of stuff I was eating that absolutely fascinated her -- so much that sometimes she tried to pull down my lower lip and climb in for a look-around!

Miss April made it to approximately her two-year birthday, and never showed any sign of physical ailment until just the last two weeks. Internal injury, slow bleed, inoperable. Time had begun to show on her before that, and she slept a lot more in preference to spending time in her play box or climbing around inside my shirt the way she used to. She may have lasted longer on a strictly monitored nutrition regimen, but I am confident that she would not have enjoyed her time nearly as much.

by NewMouseMom Wed 16 May 2018, 10:10 pm

Thanks so much for your help! Topo is causing me some concern. He has a plastic wheel that he likes, apple sticks, coconut husks, chew toys etc., and he isn't frightened of me at all. As I said he's a pet store mouse that my husband bought without telling me (and having no knowledge of what to ask etc.). I put my hand in his aquarium and lay it there with a treat on my palm. He walks into my hand and sits there for a second, sniffs once (if that! ) ands bites me! Hard! Tonight he drew blood! I know that he was in a long glass aquarium with approx. 20 other mice according to my husband, and he was aggressive when I tried to put him in with my little orphan (took him out within minutes) but he isn't showing any signs at all of being affectionate. I'm not able to hold him or even pick him up and putting my hand in there results in a bite. He doesn't show any fear of me. My hand was laying in the for several minutes while he finished eating, then he stepped into my hand and bit me. .twice, drawing blood. I don't know what to do! Any advice? He was in that task with 20 other male mice. ..so, I don't know how they pulled that off.

by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Thu 17 May 2018, 7:02 pm

So Topo is a little biter, eh? I don't have any answers, but I have some ideas -- in addition to the compiled wisdom on training mice from people who have much more experience than I do, which of course is available on this site and elsewhere.

Think like a mousie. Smell is V-E-R-Y important to them -- much more important than sight. Topo may still be on guard for that other strange mouse in the house, can still smell him in the air, can still smell him on your hands, strange mouse vapors on your clothing. Makes him edgy. So make sure their houses are separated as much as you can manage, and also make sure your hands and arms are scrubbed well before reaching into Topo's house. Maybe even have a shirt you wear for Topotime that you do not wear near the other mousehouse.

Also keep in mind that when you hold a treat in your hand it leaves residue that Topo can smell. If he takes a treat off your hand, chomps it up, thinks "mmm -- TASTY!", and then smells the same thing on your hand ... ooooooo -- more treat??? >>bite<< So when your hand goes to visit Topo, bring the treat in, for instance, a bottle cap, and set it near your hand. That way he will still associate a treat with a visit from your hand, but your hand will not smell like tasty treat.

Be patient and persistent, stay positive, and spend lots of time with Topolito. You can devise ways to play with him that do not involve exposing your hand to bite danger. Such as, you can tear up tissue and hand pieces to him when he's working on nest building, or you can dangle toys or other objects or braided cloth/yarn into his house to see if he wants to grab at them and chew on them.

And if Topo never comes around to the joys of climbing onto human hands, that's just how he is. My little April didn't care for that either, but (when she wasn't just running up the inside of my sleeve to find her sleepie spot in my shirt) she would sometimes step into a yogurt cup lying on its side in her mousehouse and then look out and up at me in such a way that I understood her "pick me up, please" request.

by NewMouseMom Fri 18 May 2018, 2:29 pm

Thank you! I think my hand smelling like treats is exactly what the problem is! I put a sock around my wrist for 24 hours and put it in his house, I put a treat on it (before I read your answer so I'll be taking that out!) and he sat on the sock, ate the treat and nibbled, bit, pulled and tugged at the sock til he got bored. I'm going to put another sock in that won't have a treat just so my scent is sort of inescapable. Picking him up isn't an option without scaring/stressing him out so I'm not even trying. I talk to him, sing to him go about feeding him etc. Quietly and slowly and I say his name a lot..especially when I'm going to put my hand in his tank, just to give him the heads up. I had to release Tango. He stopped eating and drinking. Just sat in his nest. I'm up all hours and I monitored his food so I'm sure about that. He. .. looked sad, depressed, I can't quite describe it. We released him in a protected place near the house with food and water and his nest. I caught sight of him today going back toward his nest so, fingers crossed. Anyway Topo doesn't have Tango as an excuse but this is the first time in his life that he's had a home of his own, so maybe he just needs time. ♡ I've got time, and I've got this wonderful place full of people like you that can help me give him the best life I can. Thank you so very much for being here and for answering my questions! You're a lifesaver!

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