Suggestion to change the minimum
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CallaLily
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6 posters
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What do you think?
Suggestion to change the minimum
by deleted Thu 15 Feb 2018, 7:27 am
Hear me out:
I believe the point of a forum like this is to educate people on the care of mice. But also a place to share experiences and stories, while still keeping a fairly good tone towards one another.
This is also the place a lot of people come for help, and to find info for their first pet. Therefore does this site bear an impact on the general keeping of mice. This means that if a change should be to happen in the welfare of pets, this is one of the places it can start.
This website attracts not only native English speakers but also people from other places in the world since there is a huge lack of info of care on smaller rodents, like mice.
I'd rather not bring too much unrelated info into this, but hamster hideout played a huge role in the change of standards for hamster keeping and goes to show what is possible in a community. ( I know that that was removed recently again, but that is another story)
I wanted to show you a comparison picture, of what different tanks looks like in the US, but also what they look like to the German standard. The reason I included the German standard, is because they are probably the place who are furthest with animal welfare, but sadly there's a language barrier keeping a lot of people from their info.
(There might be a 0,5 - 1,0 inch mistake in the measurements due to the thickness of the tape.)
On the picture I've included: An 8 inch Trixie wheel, a bendy bridge, toilet paper tube, a food dish with a diameter of 3,5 inches, and an 11,5 inch Silent Runner. These are added for better comparison.
In the picture you see: a 10g, 20g, 40g, the German minimum, and the German recommended
A 10g can, in theory, contain every necessity, but that's it. It leaves little to no rum for exploring, digging and climbing. It can do great as a temporary housing for things like quarantine, illness, or elderly mice. It should not be used for anything other than this.
Meanwhile, a 20g will let you have space for all the needed things and a bit more. This should be the goal of the minimum... everything and a bit more.
The study of mice in truly big cages are lacking, but the few that exist show generally healthier mice.
A study in enrichment using a cage measuring 120 x 90 cm (47 x 35 inches) and different types of toys, showed that the enriched mice had a significantly lower chance of obesity and cancer [X] (changing things around in the cage too often can though lead to stress)
I know my one voice might not be much, but I plead and beg. Please consider what I've presented to you. Changing the minimum from a 10g to a 20g is both a small and big change. Going for a 20g instead of a 10g will not break anyone's wallet, but it will make a huge change for the pet(s) living in there.. and is that not the whole goal with a forum like this? To ensure pets get the best they can?
Bottomline of what im saying: Make the 20g (360 sq inches) a clear minimum, but push for bigger.
I believe the point of a forum like this is to educate people on the care of mice. But also a place to share experiences and stories, while still keeping a fairly good tone towards one another.
This is also the place a lot of people come for help, and to find info for their first pet. Therefore does this site bear an impact on the general keeping of mice. This means that if a change should be to happen in the welfare of pets, this is one of the places it can start.
This website attracts not only native English speakers but also people from other places in the world since there is a huge lack of info of care on smaller rodents, like mice.
I'd rather not bring too much unrelated info into this, but hamster hideout played a huge role in the change of standards for hamster keeping and goes to show what is possible in a community. ( I know that that was removed recently again, but that is another story)
I wanted to show you a comparison picture, of what different tanks looks like in the US, but also what they look like to the German standard. The reason I included the German standard, is because they are probably the place who are furthest with animal welfare, but sadly there's a language barrier keeping a lot of people from their info.
(There might be a 0,5 - 1,0 inch mistake in the measurements due to the thickness of the tape.)
On the picture I've included: An 8 inch Trixie wheel, a bendy bridge, toilet paper tube, a food dish with a diameter of 3,5 inches, and an 11,5 inch Silent Runner. These are added for better comparison.
In the picture you see: a 10g, 20g, 40g, the German minimum, and the German recommended
A 10g can, in theory, contain every necessity, but that's it. It leaves little to no rum for exploring, digging and climbing. It can do great as a temporary housing for things like quarantine, illness, or elderly mice. It should not be used for anything other than this.
Meanwhile, a 20g will let you have space for all the needed things and a bit more. This should be the goal of the minimum... everything and a bit more.
The study of mice in truly big cages are lacking, but the few that exist show generally healthier mice.
A study in enrichment using a cage measuring 120 x 90 cm (47 x 35 inches) and different types of toys, showed that the enriched mice had a significantly lower chance of obesity and cancer [X] (changing things around in the cage too often can though lead to stress)
I know my one voice might not be much, but I plead and beg. Please consider what I've presented to you. Changing the minimum from a 10g to a 20g is both a small and big change. Going for a 20g instead of a 10g will not break anyone's wallet, but it will make a huge change for the pet(s) living in there.. and is that not the whole goal with a forum like this? To ensure pets get the best they can?
Bottomline of what im saying: Make the 20g (360 sq inches) a clear minimum, but push for bigger.
Last edited by Nova on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:33 am; edited 2 times in total
deleted- Jr Member
- Join date : 2018-01-10
Posts : 20
Re: Suggestion to change the minimum
by CallaLily Thu 15 Feb 2018, 7:40 am
If you’re asking for the minimum to be changed to a 20 gallon long tank - I thought @Peachy already did that? Or are you requesting larger?
CallaLily- Hero Member
- Join date : 2016-04-03
Posts : 3937
Re: Suggestion to change the minimum
by deleted Thu 15 Feb 2018, 7:57 am
CallaLily wrote:If you’re asking for the minimum to be changed to a 20 gallon long tank - I thought @Peachy already did that? Or are you requesting larger?
I might be missing something? But in the proper housing thread, a 10g is still the minimum and the 20g is only recommended
A change that would be lovely to see is the 20g as the minimum, and bigger as recommended. Maybe a possibility would be to start referring to sq inches instead of tank sizes? Since that would make it easier to apply to bin cages or other homemade solutions.
deleted- Jr Member
- Join date : 2018-01-10
Posts : 20
Re: Suggestion to change the minimum
by CinnamonPearl Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:44 am
Jesus christ, can we please stop talking about this? I think everyone on the forum is already in agreement that the minimum is self-determined and tank size should be determined based on the individual mouse/colony. I do not understand why this is still an issue on this forum.
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Re: Suggestion to change the minimum
by scaredymouse Thu 15 Feb 2018, 6:02 pm
C'mon cinnamonpearl, there's no need for that language. If you don't like this thread, don't read it. This forum always has time to discuss how we can best care for our mice.
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Lady mice: stormy, Dahlia, lily, Ella billie, coco, maggie
Gentleman mice: milo, jimmy
Other pets: Little Buddy, Kevin (cats) robert, lulu, Englebert, harold, Gerald, Zumi, nico, charlie, (hamsters), stella (gerbil), Gilly (hedgehog)
Penny, Honeybun, Lucy, Annie, Gilly, Furgie, Tedward Wigglesworth, Olivia, Goose, Sweet Katie, Binky, Delilah, Bitsy, Boopers, Sprout, Splotchy, Eva, Slappy, Shuggie, Fancy Pants, Jellybean, Charlie, Murray, Sally, Maya, Gunther, Lil Smokey, Magnus, Norman, Winnie, Sally, George, Harriet, Spec, Erzulie, Lucille, Agatha and Clementine.
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Re: Suggestion to change the minimum
by River Thu 15 Feb 2018, 6:34 pm
Hmm. I think we should very highly reccomend 20gs (or at least levelled cages, since many other forums believe they count for mice as they do for rats), but put some heavy emphasis on the fact that you need to observe the mouses behavior to know for sure. Is your mouse sparking, bruxing, and happy in a 10 gallon? No scratching at the walls, over grooming, or other signs of being unhappy? Great! This means your mouse is happy. An unhappy mouse does not exhibit only happy behavior.
However if you notice your mice barbering, becoming lazy or not showing signs of happiness...maybe its time for an upgrade. My Graham started sparking like crazy when I added the topper, something she hadn't done for months. She still does it every day or so.
Mice are individual, maybe the space they require is too. This is something we should highlight.
However if you notice your mice barbering, becoming lazy or not showing signs of happiness...maybe its time for an upgrade. My Graham started sparking like crazy when I added the topper, something she hadn't done for months. She still does it every day or so.
Mice are individual, maybe the space they require is too. This is something we should highlight.
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Re: Suggestion to change the minimum
by Mahjling Fri 16 Feb 2018, 3:01 am
The proper care of animals is something that should be discussed consistently as the people who keep them learn more about their care requirements, there is nothing worse in animal keeping than the stagnation of information.
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Re: Suggestion to change the minimum
by CallaLily Sat 17 Feb 2018, 1:49 pm
Did the OP leave the forum? Their username is “deleted” now. 
Personally I think it’s a good thing that this topic has come up a lot recently. It means more people want what’s best for our mice. In pet care it’s good to keep looking for better methods, keep learning. But how can we if others are made to feel like they can’t bring these topics up.
Personally I think it’s a good thing that this topic has come up a lot recently. It means more people want what’s best for our mice. In pet care it’s good to keep looking for better methods, keep learning. But how can we if others are made to feel like they can’t bring these topics up.
CallaLily- Hero Member
- Join date : 2016-04-03
Posts : 3937
Re: Suggestion to change the minimum
by scaredymouse Sun 18 Feb 2018, 2:02 pm
I personally prefer 20g tanks for a trio of females or a single male. That said, i still have some if my males in 10g tanks. I also currently have 2 elderly females in a 10g but they don't even use the wheel anymore. But for active mice, i like the idea of 20g being the recommended size. But that doesn't change the fact that mice are one of the few pets that can be happy in small spaces like a 10g tank. Like i said before, i always have time to talk about the well-being of mice and what we can, and should, do to make them happy and keep them healthy.
_________________
Lady mice: stormy, Dahlia, lily, Ella billie, coco, maggie
Gentleman mice: milo, jimmy
Other pets: Little Buddy, Kevin (cats) robert, lulu, Englebert, harold, Gerald, Zumi, nico, charlie, (hamsters), stella (gerbil), Gilly (hedgehog)
Penny, Honeybun, Lucy, Annie, Gilly, Furgie, Tedward Wigglesworth, Olivia, Goose, Sweet Katie, Binky, Delilah, Bitsy, Boopers, Sprout, Splotchy, Eva, Slappy, Shuggie, Fancy Pants, Jellybean, Charlie, Murray, Sally, Maya, Gunther, Lil Smokey, Magnus, Norman, Winnie, Sally, George, Harriet, Spec, Erzulie, Lucille, Agatha and Clementine.
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Posts : 2458
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