Re: Pregnant mouse

by scaredymouse Sun 29 Apr 2018, 4:52 pm

That is a little guy! Poor little bub. When he opens his eyes and starts eating real food, give him extra protein and high calorie foods... Like chicken, egg, walnuts, toast with olive oil on it.

He looks pretty scrawny but he's made it this far!

by Bennies_mice Mon 30 Apr 2018, 3:20 am

Yeah right? He's a tough little guy! Now that the other one is getting bigger you can really see the difference. I will do, let's hope he can make it!

by Bennies_mice Wed 02 May 2018, 1:13 pm

I'm afraid the little one has been abandoned. He doesn't have milk in his belly, he's even slimmer and I can kind of see the structure that holds the tail. He's lethargic, not very warm and he's not moving around like he did until yesterday. Those look all like signs of malnutrition to me. I put him back in the cage to see if anything changes but I'm afraid that if I don't do something soon he'll have passed by tomorrow. I want to try and rescue him but I don't know if I'm just imagining those things

by scaredymouse Wed 02 May 2018, 2:12 pm

I didn't want to say anything, but he didn't look like he was going to make it. You can try Hand feeding him with kmr/kitten milk replacement. You can use a tiny syringe feeding one drop at a time or the tip of a paint brush. He'll need to be fed every 2 hours. If you do that, he might make it.

So separate the mom, then take him out for food, then put him back.... Then put mom back. She should still care for him and keep him warm.

by Bennies_mice Wed 02 May 2018, 2:21 pm

I fed him some baby formula and he was super hungry, tomorrow morning I'm gonna buy the kitten formula. He can now stand on his legs and groom himself again. I'm gonna put him back with his mom an see what happens. How much should I feed him every 2 hrs? He should be 12 days old

by Bennies_mice Wed 02 May 2018, 2:22 pm

I know there's a high chance he doesn't make it but I'm hoping for the best

by scaredymouse Wed 02 May 2018, 3:34 pm

As much as he wants! I'd say try for about 15 minutes. Good luck!

by Bennies_mice Wed 02 May 2018, 5:39 pm

He passed away an hour ago, after I took him out of the nest to feed him. It's amazing how such little creatures can have such a big place in our hearts. I feel like it's my fault. I loved the little bean so much.
Thank you again for your help and advices

by scaredymouse Wed 02 May 2018, 5:58 pm

I'm so sorry to hear, i can imagine how you feel. I think that poor mum had a difficult delivery that had grave consequences on her litter...well except for that one sweet angel she was able save.

My condolences.

by Bennies_mice Thu 10 May 2018, 6:14 pm

Hi

I'm here to give you an update on the little bud. After what happened with the runt it has been really hard for me but the two girls and the little one have given me so much love that they made me feel better. He (I *think* he's a male) is growing up and learning fast from her mother and aunt. He's gonna be 3 weeks old tomorrow and he's been running around the cage since before he even had his eyes open! Now he's nibbling on solid food and tasting softer foods, climbing the bars of the cage and trying to get away as soon as I remove the upside of the cage. He's a super sweet baby who is very curious and loves cuddles! I still get worried about him not getting the food he needs because of what happened to the other baby. Today I noticed the structure that holds the tail was kind of visible and I immediately felt concerned, but he's still super active so maybe I'm worrying too much. Also his fur is super scruffy while before it was super straight but maybe it's his baby coat. Should I be concerned for any of these things? Here are two pics I just took of him!

by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Thu 10 May 2018, 7:35 pm

Actually, it looked to me from the early pictures of the two little mousies in your hand once they got some fur that you had a runt (the bigger of the two) and a peanut (the smaller).

Peanuts have serious developmental deficiencies and rarely make it past weaning, so your attentive work caring for that wee one is commendable. Don't hold yourself to blame that the little one has gone to Mousie Heaven -- many people don't even try to do anything for peanuts when they turn up in a litter. And some of us, when we hear of a little peanut being born, always hope for a miracle.

As for the little runt you have left, if you can see the tail bones it is an indication of some level of insufficient nutrition and/or hydration, whether it results from not eating and drinking enough to start with, or from digestive or metabolic problems. Either way, it can quickly turn into a "failure to thrive" situation, with the appetite fading away to zero.

Not that this is a sure solution, but you can try increasing mousie's caloric intake without expecting him to eat more volume of food, and see if you notice any filling out of the tail flesh. Most mice seem to enjoy eating baby porridge -- the kind you buy in cereal powder form and then mix with water to make a serving. The fact that there is water in the porridge will help mousie to stay well hydrated. (Be sure to use water that has no added chlorine or other chemicals -- boiling and cooling works for that.) Then you can increase the caloric content of the porridge by adding mouse-safe foods from the list provided on the "Nutrition" page of this site.

For example, you could stir in a little strained fruit jam. or some syrup or honey, or some nut butter. Adding these things to the porridge, rather than just feeding them straight to the little one, ensures that mousie still gets basic nutrition from the grain in the cereal, but that there will be extra calories from sugar/fat in every bite -- and the interesting taste may just encourage him to eat more anyway.

PLUS, if you are concerned that mousie is not getting fed enough milk from his mum, you can try feeding him kitten milk replacement formula, which you can look for at pet stores or inquire at a veterinary office. Baby mammals get very important nutrition from their mother's milk. If mum is not able to provide enough for a long enough time, and if there is no other mouse that can feed the baby, then kitten formula is usually the best you can do.

Keep us updated.

by Bennies_mice Thu 10 May 2018, 7:47 pm

Thank you so much! I never thought the baby that is left could be a runt himself, I unfortunately have zero experience with all of this but I'm doing the best I can and you guys are helping me out so much and I'm super grateful for that. I don't know if I can even see another one go, it would be too much for me to bare. As for the dehydration I noticed he's already drinking from the bottle so I'm less concerned about that and more about the nutrition. Right now at home I have some baby food - is rice porridge ok? Tomorrow morning I'm gonna buy the kitten formula just in case.

by Bennies_mice Thu 10 May 2018, 7:54 pm

Also thank you for the nice words, I loved that little peanut with all my heart

This forum is full of wonderful people and I'm glad to have at least tried.

by Bennies_mice Thu 10 May 2018, 9:14 pm

I gave him the porridge with honey and he ate a little but it made his coat and wiskers all sticky and he looks so peached about everything in the cage just sticking to him! I've seen he is pooping so I guess that's a good sign. I'll check on him the whole night and try and see if he wants to eat anything every couple of hours
Edit: tonight he ate a little porridge every now and then. This morning I bought the kitten formula but he doesn't seem to want to drink anything from the syringe, he only licked some drops from my hands :/ I've seen him nibble some food and maybe the mom already fed him. I'll try with some banana later. He's still very active and always up for cuddles and climbing. This is how his tail looks like without the flash on. How bad do you think it might be?

by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Fri 11 May 2018, 9:12 am

Well, I wouldn't say that tail looks good, but I also wouldn't say that he can't bounce back from this. I don't think I would want to see it deteriorate any further. Monitoring to make sure he is eating, as well as offering the kitten formula about every three hours (as a three-week-young mouse with signs of undernutrition), is about all you can do for him. If his body is able to properly metabolize what he is taking in, then he may be all right. But be prepared that he may be a runt because there are things wrong with him that food and water and care cannot overcome.

Make sure the honey is well mixed into the porridge before serving. That should avoid the sticky-face problem with junior. It doesn't take a lot of honey or syrup.

One more thing you can try offering him, either straight or mixed in with the porridge in place of water, is low-sodium chicken broth. That would contribute some amino acids to what he is eating, so he can synthesize protein. You can make some quickly just by boiling a piece of chicken in water, then allowing the broth to cool. Adding a little bit of salt is OK -- everybody needs a little salt for proper cell function. Store-bought broth could contain onions or garlic, which are generally advised against for mice.

I suggested feeding baby porridge because it is usually fortified with vitamins and minerals, unlike a bowl of oatmeal. But you can also add oat (or other grain) flakes or crushed low-sugar cereal (like Cheerios) to the porridge for a bit of flavor and a different grain nutrition profile than rice alone provides.

A little scrambled egg is also a good source of protein and fat, in a format that a baby mouse might eat, unlike a hard-boiled egg.

Finally, it is fine if junior wants to lick the kitten formula off your hand. Use whatever delivery means you can find that he will accept. If he doesn't like the syringe, he will fight you to avoid the syringe. Just make sure your hands are clean, dry, and scent-free before feeding, so the formula won't pick up any unwanted chemicals or smells from your hands. Regular soap is probably better for this than antibacterials.

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