Brown rice diet

by River Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:51 am

After a fright last night and a pretty deep wound I decided I need to work on other things. I know for certain she has an abscess, but she's still itchy on her back, so maybe there's another cause, too. Blood being a major trigger for my PTSD, I'm doing anything to stop her from drawing so much of it. It's worth a try, right?

So...brown rice diet. First step since food changed more recently. How do you do it? Can I do it for both mice? How much do they get a day? Are veggies and puff treats still okay? Will it be okay to feed while she's on the medication?

Any information on it much appreciated! After the the only thing left to eliminate is bedding, which I change brands of...frequently.

by Blessed Mon 12 Feb 2018, 4:29 pm

Brown rice...as the only main food? I get it's temporary, but I'm not sure I would advise it. I probably know nothing about it, it's just--wouldn't it not have everything they need in their diet?
But, like I said, what I do know? =P

So, I'd say, do what you need to for now. I doubt it'd hurt at all! Good vibes

If you need help with suggestions for a new bedding, too, I'd definitely be happy to help! Smile

by River Mon 12 Feb 2018, 5:23 pm

Thanks! It's recommended for a temporary diet for mice with severe allergic reactions. I am a little worried about its nutrition, though, so I'm scouring for more information as we speak. You're definitely not the only one questioning its value. I dont know much yet, either. Laughing

by Blessed Mon 12 Feb 2018, 5:45 pm

Ah, that makes more sense! =) You've done your research...which is more than I can say for myself regarding this. Laughing

I hope all goes well for you and Graham and that she'll stop scratching herself so excessively! :/

by Peachy Mon 12 Feb 2018, 8:43 pm

Google "elimination diets" for allergies. Typically it's the brown rice and some simple protein, like mealworms. Veggies are ok too. Smile

Definitely not the best nutritionally, and not recommended for long-term... but neither is living with an unknown allergy.

by River Mon 12 Feb 2018, 9:09 pm

How long would I have to do that before a difference shows? Will it be okay for Garcia, too?

Or would going back to her old mix be a better option? Sorry for so many questions!! I have saline wound wash to clean the wound up for now.

by Peachy Mon 12 Feb 2018, 9:25 pm

A couple weeks is typical, and then you can start adding things back one by one. You may notice improvements in 5-7 days. It is ok for Garcia, too.

by River Mon 12 Feb 2018, 9:59 pm

How will I add a seed mix back, one seed at a time though? Would I just experiment with different brands, or convert to pellets? In which case...what does the the rice do?

by River Tue 06 Mar 2018, 5:22 pm

Thought I'd return to this as I've decided to try it. She won't leave that one spot alone, though the rest of it healed beautifully, and though I have managed to make new, unseen toys by rolling TP rolls into "popsicle stick" like structures, she just won't leave it be and well, I worry. With OCD, they would show at least minimal reaction to new toys, right? Anyways, it can't hurt...can it?

The vet reccomended surgery if all else fails, to remove dead tissue from wherever it might be. But she's old, and that just isn't a good option for her, so we've decided to try every little possible thing first. Even Prozac if this doesn't work -- and another antipsychotic medicine thats been used in rats.

I'm still not sure what I'll do if it proves she does indeed have an allergy to her seed mix. I can't very well add in one seed at a time. Maybe lab block, supplemented with veggies for variety? What do you think?

I'll only be doing this for a week, maybe a week and a half. I know more might be reccomended but I will at least see improvement by then and I'm not willing to keep an old, 30 gram mouse on such a diet for too long. I will also take Garcia out twice a day to snack on seeds, away from Graham.

This is a hard process and such a confusing and difficult problem. No ring worm, no dermatitis, no infection, no mites (the vet said she doesn't see any, anyways, and the ivermectin should have worked even a little), OCD is very possible at this point but I have come to doubt that's all that's going on due to the nature of her itching/healing process, and allergies are my last option. This mouse is worth the world, though, so whatever she needs...wish us luck!

And advice.

Advice is always good.

by Peachy Tue 06 Mar 2018, 11:42 pm

What do you typically feed? I feed a seed mix, lab locks, cereals, oatmeal, dig kibble, Milkbones, etc... If I were adding things back slowly, I might start with the seed mix. If she falls back on any improvement then it would be reasonable to suspect it's something in the mix. If not, move on to the next thing.
If it's the seed mix you might play around with other store bought mixes or consider making your own. If you make your own you could add one thing at a time, and you'd also have the benefit of potentially higher quality products in your mixes.

Also wanted to add that if she's allergic to sunflower seeds or peanuts and you pick those things out of the mix, that could be your problem! Contamination is my favorite word lately. Laughing

Edit: If you can get paper straws, they'll work almost as well as popsicle sticks for MES building! I was brainstorming a few weeks ago, can't believe I didn't think of it! I did catch onto some plastic spoon/stick things but they were a bit expensive. I incorporate paper straws into almost all of my MES structures because the mice love them so much.

by River Wed 07 Mar 2018, 1:00 am

I feed seed mix,veggies and insects. I recently switched the mix brand back to her old one, do you think that means I shouldn't do the diet?

I'm also going to try Revolution -- since it has some notable benefits over ivermectin that I've read, such as not needing to treat the environment, lowered risk of overdose, and only needing to treat once. Granted, that is if the alcohol content won't irritate her skin too much more...I'll go over it with the vet. Mites aren't highly suspected but worth a try I guess, it is the most common cause. After that I'll try Prozac...

If I can afford any of that anyway! It's been a struggle.

by Peachy Wed 07 Mar 2018, 7:43 am

What does your vet think of food allergies?

If the vet doesn't think she has parasites I would wait on the Revolution. I would wait on the diet, too, but only because I'm overwhelmed just reading all this and would need to find where she's at without medications and food changes before I chose a next step. Healing takes time and chronic scratching will take time to get under proper control.

But, if you do want to go ahead with the diet, it doesn't matter that you recently changed mixes. The diet will be a bit like a reset button, giving you a relatively clean slate.

by CallaLily Wed 07 Mar 2018, 9:09 am

I’m trying to remember when I did the rice diet with Daryl. For some reason I didn’t include it in my notes. But I did switch him over to just brown rice - raw and cooked because he didn’t seem to care for it much raw - I think it was a week ... two? I can’t remember how long. But I never got around to slowly adding foods in because there was no change. I took no change to mean no food allergy. From what I understand a rice allergy is extremely rare. I’m not much help at all, sorry.

by River Wed 07 Mar 2018, 10:18 am

My vet actually said allergies were rare and it was 'possible, but unlikely...', either I'm in too many mouse communities or allergies aren't as rare as she suggested! She did give us permission to use childrens benadryl but I have no clue how to dose it.

We didn't do a skin scrape, but we did look at her skin and talk about what we had already done. She said she could give an ivermectin dose but as we said we'd already done it she said it was unlikely and decided not to, but ivermectin can fail, so I reckon it's still possible.

Her appointment is Thursday so I'll tell you what we're doing by then. She just isn't healing anymore, rather, worsening. I dont know why the medicine won't work for this spot, but hey, maybe it'll get its magic back. I'll keep trying!

by MerciToujoursMaPetiteBoop Wed 07 Mar 2018, 2:22 pm

Just a few points to consider:

Stress may be snowballing her into this itch-tizzy -- stress of losing her friend Maier, stress of the abscess, stress of the treatments (both the strange handling situations involved and the chemical effects), stress of a new roommate. Watch for things that make her seem calmer, more relaxed, and cultivate them. Maybe just bring her out for some quality time while you're doing something calm and quiet, like reading a book (computer off, telly off, music off -- that might make terrible noise to mouse ears).

As long as Graham keeps re-opening existing wounds and gouging new ones, there is risk that contaminants from her mouth, claws, bedding, the air, etc. can enter the raw skin and make bad on her. That could be not only the opportunistic bacterial zoo, but things like fungus and particulates and chemical irritants. Has she been housed in a hospital tank during treatments? That would at least remove bedding as a source of irritation, and (if she burrows a lot) it would make it easier for you to see what she's doing at any given time.

If you restrict her diet, try to bring along a few of her most favorite treats. Being suddenly cut off from everything tasty that she enjoyed the most could also be a stress load.

I am happy that Graham has a doctor who is trying to find out what's going so wrong. A fast-expanding area of irritation could indicate another infection -- one that other medications failed to treat -- or there could be something else wrong internally. (Although I think if she had kidney malfunction or a blood disorder, the itching would be all over the place, rather than confined to spots.)

Maybe she's just going to have to get a colloidal oatmeal bath every day! I used to scratch my shins so bad, because of dermatitis from gluten intolerance, that my mum would cry out, practically weeping in sympathetic pain: STOP SCRATCHING!!! But all I could think was if I could find anything bigger and sharper to scratch with, even as blood ran. Maybe something like Edward Scissorhands... Aveno (or the generic equivalent) finally stopped that crazy itching from gluten pollutin'. Just. Like. That.

Hope things go well tomorrow at the doctor. Here are some little kisses for Graham's booboos: x x x x x x x I hope that's enough.

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