NEW OWNER NUTRITIONAL HELP

by KawaiiKimi Sat 29 Jun 2019, 7:40 am

Hi all I’m adopting a mouse from my friend who could no longer take care of it due to allergies, she’s giving me all his supplies and I plan to upgrade a few things(like his wheel but I think his current saucer is fine-and instead of a 10gal moving him to a 20Gal spare I have after the taming process)

She’s currently feeding him a mixture of Kaytee fiesta and fortie diet, during my time researching I’ve come across the threads on this site (such as http://www.petmousefanciers.com/t15-mouse-diet ) that mentions Kaytee is a brand that’s best avoided so I was thinking about switching him? In the same thread they discuss how mixing these three brands(pasted below) would be an ideal diet.

-Mr Johnsons Advance Rat and Mouse Food

-Vitakfraft VitaSmart Parakeet Food

-Vitakraft Vita Prima Sunscription Dwarf Hamster Formula

I work for Petco, so I would prefer to feed him something I can get at my own store as he is a pet I wasn’t expecting to get(but I can’t turn away an animal who needs a home and I’ll admit it was basically love at first site) which they only have available the Vitakraft Vita Prima Subscription Dwarf Hamster Formula from that list. They do however also offer Vitakraft Vita Prima Subscription Parakeet Food- so I was wondering if that would be good to mix in with the Dwarf Hamster formula?

Attached are screenshots of the actual mouse foods that we carry, but if you guys would like me to include parakeet foods or other information please let me know and I will add more pictures.

by Robin~ Sat 29 Jun 2019, 7:49 am

Hello!

The link you posted also has some recommendations near the bottom, so I would definitely check those out Smile

Unfortunately most mouse/hamster foods have protein that is much too high for your average feeder mouse. Having too high protein can cause your mouse to get very itchy patches called hot spots. You're going to want to find a food that's about 12-14% protein, which actually takes you into the realm of parakeet food!

I'm currently using a mix of Vitakraft VitaSmart Parakeet and Sunseed Sunsations Parakeet and honestly, since they are technically the same brand, the foods are very similar. However, the Sunseed mix does appear to have more variety so I would highly recommend it Smile

I've also heard good things about Brown's tropical carnival hamster and gerbil.

If none of those are available at your store let me know Smile

~Robin

by KawaiiKimi Sat 29 Jun 2019, 8:36 am

Robin~ wrote:I'm currently using a mix of Vitakraft VitaSmart Parakeet and Sunseed Sunsations Parakeet and honestly, since they are technically the same brand, the foods are very similar. However, the Sunseed mix does appear to have more variety so I would highly recommend it I've also heard good things about Brown's tropical carnival hamster and gerbil.

My store doesn’t have the Sunseed Sunsations Parakeet food available Sad

. We do have the Sun Seed Vita Prima Sunscription Parakeet food as well as Brown’s tropical carnival hamster and gerbil. Would you recommend this over the Vita Prima Sunscription Dwarf Hamster Food? Or would mixing all 3 equally be ideal? Should I be concerned about him picking out food and not eating it all?

I’m also curious as to how to go about transitioning the food, for dogs and many small rodents I’ve had I’ve always applied the 3/3/3 rule ( 3 days of 75% old food with 25% new, 3 days 50/50, 3 days 25% old food and 75% new food)

During the taming process could I possibly use Wysong Epigen 90 Digestive Support pellets as treats? Or Oxbow Young Rabbit Alfafa Pellets? I read that higher end dog food would be okay on occasion... Or should I just get pumpkin seeds?

And how often do I feed them(is every 2 days okay like it would be for a hamster?) and what amount? Is it fine to throw away food that I’ve left out after 2 days?

Also thank you for your help! Smile

I really appreciate it!

by Robin~ Sat 29 Jun 2019, 8:57 am

KawaiiKimi wrote:
Robin~ wrote:I'm currently using a mix of Vitakraft VitaSmart Parakeet and Sunseed Sunsations Parakeet and honestly, since they are technically the same brand, the foods are very similar. However, the Sunseed mix does appear to have more variety so I would highly recommend it I've also heard good things about Brown's tropical carnival hamster and gerbil.
My store doesn’t have the Sunseed Sunsations Parakeet food available . We do have the Sun Seed Vita Prima Sunscription Parakeet food as well as Brown’s tropical carnival hamster and gerbil. Would you recommend this over the Vita Prima Sunscription Dwarf Hamster Food? Or would mixing all 3 equally be ideal? Should I be concerned about him picking out food and not eating it all?

I’m also curious as to how to go about transitioning the food, for dogs and many small rodents I’ve had I’ve always applied the 3/3/3 rule ( 3 days of 75% old food with 25% new, 3 days 50/50, 3 days 25% old food and 75% new food)

During the taming process could I possibly use Wysong Epigen 90 Digestive Support pellets as treats? Or Oxbow Young Rabbit Alfafa Pellets? I read that higher end dog food would be okay on occasion... Or should I just get pumpkin seeds?

And how often do I feed them(is every 2 days okay like it would be for a hamster?) and what amount? Is it fine to throw away food that I’ve left out after 2 days?

Also thank you for your hel! I really appreciate it!

Yes, Sunseed Vita Prima Parakeet was the one I was talking about.

As for the Sunseed dwarf hamster food, I'm not really liking the way it looks; it seems very corn-heavy. Sunseed VP Parakeet is based in millet, whereas Brown's seems to put a base on larger seeds.

A mix of Brown's and Sunseed cold work great to start! Maybe after the bags are done you can just pick whichever mix you like more and go with just that as, unlikehamsters, mice are fine with just a seed mix.

As for transitioning, I might make the transition a little faster than that so he can get off the Kaytee food ASAP. Maybe a couple of days? I dunno, when I got my mice I just put them right onto the food I was feeding and they didn't seem to care a whole lot.

As for treats, I don't think mice would find pellets very appealing. I feel using foods of different animals (that have different nutritional needs) isn't the best option anyhow. From my experience, my mice have liked freeze-dried crickets, freeze-dried mealworms, oats, and the occasional bit of Cheerio. Don't forget veggies; stuff like lettuce (not iceberg), bell pepper, and other leafy greens make for great daily additions and treats. Fruit can also be fed on occasion. Pumpkin seeds can also work, but they are pretty big so not too often Smile

Happy to help!

~Robin

by KawaiiKimi Sat 29 Jun 2019, 9:17 am

Robin~ wrote:
KawaiiKimi wrote:
Robin~ wrote:I'm currently using a mix of Vitakraft VitaSmart Parakeet and Sunseed Sunsations Parakeet and honestly, since they are technically the same brand, the foods are very similar. However, the Sunseed mix does appear to have more variety so I would highly recommend it I've also heard good things about Brown's tropical carnival hamster and gerbil.
My store doesn’t have the Sunseed Sunsations Parakeet food available . We do have the Sun Seed Vita Prima Sunscription Parakeet food as well as Brown’s tropical carnival hamster and gerbil. Would you recommend this over the Vita Prima Sunscription Dwarf Hamster Food? Or would mixing all 3 equally be ideal? Should I be concerned about him picking out food and not eating it all?

I’m also curious as to how to go about transitioning the food, for dogs and many small rodents I’ve had I’ve always applied the 3/3/3 rule ( 3 days of 75% old food with 25% new, 3 days 50/50, 3 days 25% old food and 75% new food)

During the taming process could I possibly use Wysong Epigen 90 Digestive Support pellets as treats? Or Oxbow Young Rabbit Alfafa Pellets? I read that higher end dog food would be okay on occasion... Or should I just get pumpkin seeds?

And how often do I feed them(is every 2 days okay like it would be for a hamster?) and what amount? Is it fine to throw away food that I’ve left out after 2 days?

Also thank you for your hel! I really appreciate it!

Yes, Sunseed Vita Prima Parakeet was the one I was talking about.

As for the Sunseed dwarf hamster food, I'm not really liking the way it looks; it seems very corn-heavy. Sunseed VP Parakeet is based in millet, whereas Brown's seems to put a base on larger seeds.

A mix of Brown's and Sunseed cold work great to start! Maybe after the bags are done you can just pick whichever mix you like more and go with just that as, unlikehamsters, mice are fine with just a seed mix.

As for transitioning, I might make the transition a little faster than that so he can get off the Kaytee food ASAP. Maybe a couple of days? I dunno, when I got my mice I just put them right onto the food I was feeding and they didn't seem to care a whole lot.

As for treats, I don't think mice would find pellets very appealing. I feel using foods of different animals (that have different nutritional needs) isn't the best option anyhow. From my experience, my mice have liked freeze-dried crickets, freeze-dried mealworms, oats, and the occasional bit of Cheerio. Don't forget veggies; stuff like lettuce (not iceberg), bell pepper, and other leafy greens make for great daily additions and treats. Fruit can also be fed on occasion. Pumpkin seeds can also work, but they are pretty big so not too often

Happy to help!

~Robin

So long term mixing Brown’s and Sunseed wouldn’t be ok? If that’s the case I’ll probably just go with one of them, most likely the parakeet one. I assumed they would benefit more from a variety of food in their mix. But if they could do with just one than that’s cool. Very Happy

Would live crickets/mealworms be okay? I’m pretty sure the freeze dried mealworms at my store contain other things in the mix. But can’t quite remember.

I was thinking I give him a little spring mix every few days? But I haven’t fully checked if everything in spring mix is mouse safe so if needed I’ll just pick out the good stuff. Smile

Is daily veggies okay for them?

by Robin~ Sat 29 Jun 2019, 10:36 am

KawaiiKimi wrote:
Robin~ wrote:
KawaiiKimi wrote:
Robin~ wrote:I'm currently using a mix of Vitakraft VitaSmart Parakeet and Sunseed Sunsations Parakeet and honestly, since they are technically the same brand, the foods are very similar. However, the Sunseed mix does appear to have more variety so I would highly recommend it I've also heard good things about Brown's tropical carnival hamster and gerbil.
My store doesn’t have the Sunseed Sunsations Parakeet food available . We do have the Sun Seed Vita Prima Sunscription Parakeet food as well as Brown’s tropical carnival hamster and gerbil. Would you recommend this over the Vita Prima Sunscription Dwarf Hamster Food? Or would mixing all 3 equally be ideal? Should I be concerned about him picking out food and not eating it all?

I’m also curious as to how to go about transitioning the food, for dogs and many small rodents I’ve had I’ve always applied the 3/3/3 rule ( 3 days of 75% old food with 25% new, 3 days 50/50, 3 days 25% old food and 75% new food)

During the taming process could I possibly use Wysong Epigen 90 Digestive Support pellets as treats? Or Oxbow Young Rabbit Alfafa Pellets? I read that higher end dog food would be okay on occasion... Or should I just get pumpkin seeds?

And how often do I feed them(is every 2 days okay like it would be for a hamster?) and what amount? Is it fine to throw away food that I’ve left out after 2 days?

Also thank you for your hel! I really appreciate it!

Yes, Sunseed Vita Prima Parakeet was the one I was talking about.

As for the Sunseed dwarf hamster food, I'm not really liking the way it looks; it seems very corn-heavy. Sunseed VP Parakeet is based in millet, whereas Brown's seems to put a base on larger seeds.

A mix of Brown's and Sunseed cold work great to start! Maybe after the bags are done you can just pick whichever mix you like more and go with just that as, unlikehamsters, mice are fine with just a seed mix.

As for transitioning, I might make the transition a little faster than that so he can get off the Kaytee food ASAP. Maybe a couple of days? I dunno, when I got my mice I just put them right onto the food I was feeding and they didn't seem to care a whole lot.

As for treats, I don't think mice would find pellets very appealing. I feel using foods of different animals (that have different nutritional needs) isn't the best option anyhow. From my experience, my mice have liked freeze-dried crickets, freeze-dried mealworms, oats, and the occasional bit of Cheerio. Don't forget veggies; stuff like lettuce (not iceberg), bell pepper, and other leafy greens make for great daily additions and treats. Fruit can also be fed on occasion. Pumpkin seeds can also work, but they are pretty big so not too often

Happy to help!

~Robin
So long term mixing Brown’s and Sunseed wouldn’t be ok? If that’s the case I’ll probably just go with one of them, most likely the parakeet one. I assumed they would benefit more from a variety of food in their mix. But if they could do with just one than that’s cool.

Would live crickets/mealworms be okay? I’m pretty sure the freeze dried mealworms at my store contain other things in the mix. But can’t quite remember.

I was thinking I give him a little spring mix every few days? But I haven’t fully checked if everything in spring mix is mouse safe so if needed I’ll just pick out the good stuff. Is daily veggies okay for them?

The mix of the two would work fine long term. I suppose it would work better variety wise since the two foods are so different. But, if you notice he starts to prefer one mix over the other there's not really a point in mixing the foods is I guess what I was trying to say Smile

Live mealworms/crickets can work well too (and they're technically healthier), just be sure to kill them before you feed them so you don't have bugs loose in your cage. If you do want to go freeze-dried though I believe Fluker's and Zilla sell straight up insects. Zilla also has an omnivore mix that has insects but also some freeze-dried veggies (all of which are mouse safe!).

I fed a spring mix a little while back and it worked out really well. There's a safe food article pinned near the top but most leafy greens should be fine. Veggies everyday is great! About 1/2 tsp/ about an 1"x1" piece should be fine.

by CallaLily Sat 29 Jun 2019, 12:06 pm

KawaiiKimi wrote:In the same thread they discuss how mixing these three brands(pasted below) would be an ideal diet.

-Mr Johnsons Advance Rat and Mouse Food

-Vitakfraft VitaSmart Parakeet Food

-Vitakraft Vita Prima Sunscription Dwarf Hamster Formula

I’m having a lot of trouble focusing today so I’m not going to even try to go into any kind of detail right now (sorry). But since I was part of that convo I did want to point out that this was just an example of one mix that could work out (especially if something like walnuts were added in a certain amount), but it is not the only mix that would work. Very Happy

Take a look at the Guaranteed Analysis and ingredients lists in the foods available to you. From there you can easily calculate what mix (by weight) of which brands would offer a good GA and provide a lot of variety. The GA is important but so is whole foods variety. I personally also try to select foods which don’t have a lot of corn or sunflower seeds (or preferably none, but that’s difficult to find).

I hope I’m making sense. My brain seriously does not want to function today.

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